San Jose, CA is home to the biggest number of Vietnamese Americans in the United States and outside of Vietnam. How did your family come to the United States and ultimately resettle in San Jose?

My dad escaped Vietnam in either 1979 or 1980 and resettled in San Jose with his family. My dad was born in a district in Saigon called Thủ Đức, a pretty special neighborhood back in the day because it was lively in terms of people, culture, and education in particular, and so he had the chance to get the best education when it came to elementary school and high school. This passion for education made my dad into a person who always pushed his peers, siblings, and extended family members to get degrees and go for graduate programs. So when he arrived in San Jose, he took community college courses at San Jose City College and later went to Sacramento State in applied mathematics. He later got his master’s degree in Traditional Chinese Medicine.  

My mom escaped Vietnam around 1979 or 1980 as well, when she was 14 years old. She met my dad later on while he was in Sacramento, though their story goes further back. My mom had previously met my paternal grandmother in the refugee camps and they kept in contact afterwards, and so when my dad moved to Sacramento for school, he actually stayed with my mom’s family through that initial connection. My parents ended up dating and after my dad graduated, he asked my mom to come back to San Jose and they started a life here.

How did growing up in San Jose shape your own journey of exploring or understanding your Vietnamese American identity?

I was born and raised in San Jose. I appreciate that we have a really large diaspora and a very dense one at that, all of which was helpful for me in learning more about my identity – being able to talk to other Vietnamese people, see them, interact with them, and hear the language on a regular basis. I spoke Vietnamese often with my parents and whatever words I didn’t understand, they would translate for me. Growing up here allowed me to work on my Vietnamese and be more immersed in the culture, for example, Vietnamese Boy Scouts. Being immersed here also helped me see the complexity of the Vietnamese community. We have a lot of infighting and politics and factions. As I've gotten older, I realized how toxic it can get and how it could, in the long run, lead us to a destructive path. I often worry that we're going to have so many people who are not interested in their own identity because of all the infighting and tension. I don't mind when people have a different opinion or a different political preference, but at the end of the day, we need to understand that we are Vietnamese people and everybody here is our brother and sister and we have to work together if we’re going to make it in this world. We all came here from a place where everything was taken away from us, but because of the deeply ingrained political differences and beliefs, we're not having any conversations about it and fighting one another instead. Then this next generation, who may not have any real connection to this history, might be sitting back confused, wondering what is happening and why there are divisions in our community.  

What about school? Did you ever learn about Vietnamese/Southeast Asian diaspora history in the classroom?

I had to seek my own way of learning about who I am, and much of that didn’t happen until I was in college and took some Asian American Studies courses. Shout out to Dr. Eric Pido at SF ​​State, I got to learn about different Asian American identities and see how sometimes it can be similar to our own Vietnamese American identity too. My experience with the Asian American Studies department here drove my curiosity to be a part of the Vietnamese community after I left college, so when I came back to San Jose, I wanted to find ways to do more for my community. We're starting to see San Jose lose Vietnamese representation; I believe there's only one person on the city council right now who is Vietnamese, which can be problematic especially when we have districts where there's huge Vietnamese populations and folks are fighting for resources. There’s also a generational divide. We've had certain Vietnamese leaders who are older than us and they often push other groups aside, which is not right in the first place, but it also causes other groups to be upset at us, ultimately impacting coalition building. That's why I'm a huge advocate of younger POC leaders rising up and getting into office. They have a new way of seeing the world.

Was there ever a moment you felt deeply proud to be Vietnamese?

I was involved in a few other Asian-centered spaces previously, but the first time that I felt I could take the lessons I had learned from those experiences and really put myself out there was when I helped lead and organize the Viets for Biden rally. 

That whole experience felt to me, for the first time, I am connected to my community. I'm very grateful for the people who were able to be a part of the team, as well as the people who mentored me during that time. We had a large turnout, but only because of help from so many others. For example, not only the San Jose community, but from the communities outside of San Jose as well, including the Facebook groups where there's a large network of Vietnamese diaspora. It was so empowering to see all these people come together and contribute in as many ways as possible. One of the great things I've learned about that experience is that you're going to have people who are not going to like what you're doing, especially considering the political complexity in the Vietnamese community. I feel like there's no reason to be upset at folks who don't like what we're doing as long as we agree to stay on our respective paths and are given space to believe in what we believe. We wanted people to come and see for themselves what we were about and what we hoped to achieve. That’s why we invited people from the community to share their thoughts and experiences as refugees assimilating in American society.

Considering the political complexities you just mentioned, as you organized this rally, did you receive any pushback from community members? How did you navigate it?

I had this funny experience where I was passing out flyers with a friend at Grand Century Mall in Vietnam Town. I passed out a flyer and the guy was like, “Oh, this is for Biden. Wow, are there really people supporting Biden?” And I said, “I mean, honestly, why not?” He takes the flyer and heads into a restaurant and runs into the kitchen and starts laughing loudly while holding the flyer up, saying things in Vietnamese like “Come on, Trump support is here!” My friend and I watched as he was laughing so hard with his fellow mates. I said to my friend, who is Vietnamese and this is his first real experience in the Vietnamese community, “That’s what you're gonna be up against. It's gonna be tough, but just believe in the process and what we're doing.”

I was really lucky that I was able to work with team members whose visions were so aligned from the get go. We talked about our goals, what we wanted out of this, our individual capacities, clearly defined our roles, and tried to delegate and prioritize mental health in the process. Even though we had only four or five days to prepare, this rally was one of the best experiences I’ve had in my life – I felt so proud to be Vietnamese American. It was a huge turnout, and I’m grateful to hear about how many people were appreciative of this event.

Your dad was one of the speakers at this rally. How did this come about?

One of my tasks as part of the planning team was to get speakers and I told everybody on the team that this is a rally where I don't want to have political officials at this event speaking because that could be a huge turn off. I wanted real people to talk about their experiences assimilating in the United States and why they believe Biden is the candidate to continually build opportunity and the American Dream. One speaker I wanted was my dad because he speaks Vietnamese with such clarity and eloquence. We hadn’t always been on the same page politically, but we had begun speaking more about politics the last few years, which brought us closer on the political spectrum. I asked him, “Dad, I'm doing this event and I really hope you can contribute because I think what you say will have a huge impact on our community, especially with older folks. As younger folks, we have a language barrier with older generations, and it’s hard to have this conversation with our family members. And so if you get a chance to speak and talk about what's going on and how you can relate it, I know people will truly begin to understand what's going on.” 

We can’t wait to hear more about Hot Boi Chili Oil, but first, tell us how you got here. Have you always been interested in cooking and being part of the food business? What is your own relationship to food?

I was a pretty fat kid when I was younger. I ate anything and everything because my parents taught me that way and my cousins gave me shit for being picky. I learned to cook from my mom since she took on the role as a homemaker, and it’s funny because my mom cooks really tasty food, but it was actually my dad who taught her. Even in the refugee camps, he cooked for everybody too. I also watched a lot of Food Network and How It’s Made because it was one of the few things that kept me distracted from my distaste in school. For me, being in a grocery store is like being a kid in a candy store – it drove my curiosity in how food is prepared and packaged. As I grew older, I've had so many instances where family and friends would encourage me to start a food business. I never thought too much about it, but my parents were against it, always saying something like, “No, no, no. He can't do that because he has to go work for a company.” I think that they felt this way because so many Vietnamese folks work in the food industry, especially in San Jose, and for my parents, they just didn’t want that struggle for me. 

We are eventually getting to a point where all our elders have passed on, and if we have all these older folks running the restaurants, who's going to run the restaurants from now on? With each new generation, what happens to our food? I want to be a part of the community that is actively continuing to make, honor, and even reimagine the type of food that we grew up on.

You actually started Hot Boi Chili Oil while in the midst of the shelter-in-place during the heart of the pandemic. Tell us about HBCO’s origin story.

During quarantine, there was so much time for me to just do whatever I wanted, so I started experimenting with food. I've always loved chili oil. It's a type of condiment where it's great on a lot of different things. My childhood is filled with memories of my dad and I going to TK Noodle after he would pick me up from school and I would douse chili oil on a huge plate for combination chow fun. To me, if there's exactly no spice, I'm just like “this has no flavor.” Feeling motivated by the predicament of quarantine, I just followed a recipe online and to be honest, it wasn't very good at first. Honestly, it was kind of ass. The taste wasn’t there and because I was accustomed to having some crunch in chili oil from S&B Foods, I wanted to emulate that crunch/texture or make something similar to that, but with heat. S&B chili crunch had zero heat and there needed to be a change. After trying a few batches,  it still tasted like ass, but I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. Feeling tired, I took a quick nap and in those 20 minutes, I began to dream and there were clouds with golden nuggets of garlic floating on top of it. I immediately woke up, turned on mad scientist energy and quickly threw chopped garlic into hot oil to fry. After it was completed, I put it in chili oil and my god, it was… getting somewhere! My partner tried some and she instantly knew we were onto something. I started making my own chili oil for myself, but I would make a huge amount each time, so I put the extra in leftover jars to share with my friends. They loved how the garlic was so crunchy even after time passed. Then they started pushing me to open a business. Since it has always been a dream of mine to start a business – why the hell not?  

At that point, I remembered something my dad told me when he was trying to start a new business in Traditional Chinese Medicine. He spent months and months figuring out how to take the liquid form of the medicine and formulate it into a simple pill. Because who really likes drinking Traditional Chinese Medicine? Not me! So one night, he also had a dream and in that dream, he finally found the right formulation to make herbal supplements. His dream was able to take us from lower middle class into the American Dream. 

I asked myself, “is it possible that my dream is also a message to pursue this path?” So far, it’s been one hell of a ride and I wouldn’t change it for the world.

What were some of the challenges you faced starting and operating a business in a shutdown?

There were some upsides during the shutdown actually. We managed to clean out my garage and convert it into an impromptu production facility. It felt like Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak working on Apple Computers. Honestly, that’s how a lot of great businesses start. However, everything else was a challenge. Demand kept going up, so we needed to find ways to optimize our production process since everything was handmade. I have no prior knowledge in tools and equipment in the food industry, so we spent time brainstorming and researching certain equipment that could meet our needs. It was all learning as we went. It was even hard to come by with ingredients; we had a number of grocery runs where stores didn't have all the ingredients, and most trips involved waiting in long lines. With rising inflation, stressed supply chains, and price gouging – the cost of ingredients made it difficult for us to invest into new equipment.

We knew there were going to be challenges no matter what, but during the pandemic, we definitely had to get more creative and be more flexible with the circumstances. I kept telling myself that it's going to be okay, that these challenges are only normal – we just have to find a solution. We've learned to think quickly on our feet and always have a backup plan.

HBCO’s mission is “Crafting an artisanal-garlicky-crunchy chili oil that brings the heat while raising awareness and advocacy for social justice.” What makes food such a powerful communicator, love language, and tool for community building?

Being Vietnamese American, the act of sharing and eating food is a huge part of my identity. I can’t tell you how many gatherings I’ve had in my life where food brought the people around me together. But I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had frustrating, upsetting, and disappointing conversations with my dad,  “What are you doing with your life? Why aren’t you going back to school? What are you going to do when I’m gone?” Eventually, we made up by going out for a bite – sometimes in silence. 

The dinner table should always be this safe space to bring joy and unforgettable memories, but it should also be a safe space to have uncomfortable conversations to learn, grow, and heal. Every time someone tries Hot Boi, you can see their eyes open up and a light bulb flicker. Their next thoughts are, “What did I just eat? Where can I find this? Who made this? What are they about?” and in turn, sparking a light hearted conversation. In times of difficult situations at the dinner table, I hope that just one bite of Hot Boi can turn a silent experience into meaningful dialogue.

Sadly, your dad is no longer with us. Did he get to see you kick off Hot Boi Chili Oil?

I think he sort of knew in some way that he was going to pass soon. He had been saying it for the last five years or so of his life, but I think he knew within that week of his passing that it was time. He had been preparing in a sense, like trying to do things that he didn't do in the past and had put off; appreciating the little things in life, getting back into his hobbies. One of the things that I got to see him do was pick up photography again. He's actually the person that inspired me to learn photography as well. I have this peculiar memory near the end of his life. on the days that he would go into the dialysis clinic, he would wake up early and wash dishes left in the sink overnight. I happened to be awake during that time because of the grueling hours of frying garlic and putting the chili oil together. I remember staring at him, thinking to myself. This guy never washes dishes and all of a sudden, he’s taking the time to do it. Something felt a little off. Maybe he was trying to appreciate the simple things in life before he’s gone.

With so much uncertainty during the pandemic, starting a business was incredibly risky. I had a hard time explaining to my parents what I was trying to do, hoping it would quell their worries that I was not going to make any money (which, granted, is a valid point) and in their eyes, focusing on something that is going to fail. One of my most painful memories is my dad criticising and scoffing at the idea of selling chili oil in front of my face. He never tried Hot Boi during the first couple months of the business. We would have gatherings at my house and every person that tried the chili oil would graciously compliment the crunch and the taste, then proceed to push me to sell it (even though we were already selling it). You could see the disapproval from both my parents. Eventually, he gave it a shot and lo and behold, kept asking me for more! Even though it felt nice that he appreciated our chili oil, that, however, did not change his mind about the business.

I wanted him to recognize that this business is an investment and like most businesses, you might not see real profit until a few years in. One night, he called for me to come into his room and he asked me, “Is this what you really want to do? What about law school?” I just didn’t feel like I could put 110% into another field that I’m not truly passionate about. I’ve learned over the years that in order to maintain and continue to push myself, I need to be passionate in the work that I do. I’ve done so many things over the years where I kept looking for validation and the only validation I received was disapproval and disappointment, so my motivation would wither away into obscurity and never seeing it though. Owning a business is a dream of mine and now that I am given an opportunity to act on it, I want to see it through. I don’t think he understood where I was coming from and the minute I explained myself, you could see all the disappointment coming from his face. He didn’t say much but he never looked at me the same. I’ll never forget it. That was one of the last conversations I had with him. He died unable to see where we are today.

How does your dad’s influence continue to inspire so much of who you are and the entrepreneurial spirit you have?

First and foremost, my dad was always a hustler. He first found work in the Bay Area by picking cherries with my grandma. Later, he became a manicurist with my mom. Eventually, he made enough money to start a wedding photography business and a karaoke production studio.  He would find ways to capitalize and build a life here in San Jose to reach the American Dream. For instance, he had a black market computer business during the 90s. He had friends in tech companies that worked on assembly lines and they would bring in broken parts that companies throw out, fix them up at his shop, and sell them for a pretty penny. Mind you, computer parts during the 90s tech boom were ridiculously expensive! Can you imagine 500 MEGABYTES of hard drive space was at least $2000? We’ve got TERABYTES of hard drive space nowadays! At one point, the FBI was looking for him because of his illegal business practice. I think after I was 2 or 3 years old, he followed a legitimate avenue by opening a window tinting and car alarm installation business and when it was starting to fail, he moved into making vinyl signs for small businesses. That was his last business until he found his true calling in Traditional Chinese Medicine, spending the later half of his life learning and treating people with incurable ailments (I’m not even joking about the incurable ailments). He would tell me stories about how when he first started his businesses, he had no idea what he was doing, but he would find any way possible to learn how to make this business take off, whether it’s picking up a book or watching others. He would always say, “Không biết làm thì học hỏi để làm cho bạn được” which means, “If you don’t know how to it, go learn all that you can and make this work”

So growing up, I had a sense of what business meant and what you can do to make ends meet. Like father and son, we’re both problem solvers and we like to be challenged in the work that we do. Though, throughout my childhood, I’ve seen him struggle. I’ve seen his businesses die a slow death. And I’ve seen our family at the brink of losing our home in 2007. But I never once saw him cry about it. He always managed to put food on the table and support my family. 

Before he started an herbal supplement brand, he took a gamble and went back to school for Traditional Chinese Medicine, attending night classes after work, so he was not often present in my childhood. The final months with him, he expressed his frustration of me not going back to school and mentioned one of his biggest regrets is not being able to be there for me when I was attending school. In his eyes, he felt that if he was more present during those years, I would learn to appreciate and see the value of reaching higher education. To be frank, I was a severely underperforming student. I felt extremely unmotivated, undisciplined – but in actuality, even though I love learning and going to school, I didn’t know how to ask for help and I would procrastinate further. Even when I did ask my dad for help, he would yell and scream at me, “Làm không được thì dẹp mẹ nó cho rồi” or “Sinh đẻ ở Mỹ mà không biết làm thì chết rồi.” In English, “If you can’t do it, then don’t even mother fucking try.” and “You’re born in America, but you can’t even do this so you might as well die.” It honestly made learning not fun whatsoever and made me afraid of ever asking for help, thus, leaving a lot of trauma that I had to unlearn. Up until community college and 4-year university, my GPA was always 2.0 and below. Heck, I still struggled with asking for help at SF State. I barely graduated with a 2.5 GPA.

After his passing, I reflected more about myself and his entrepreneurial journey, especially his window tinting and car alarm, vinyl sign, and herbal supplement business. I came to realize why he kept moving onto the next thing – he got too comfortable when things became good. When the money is good, you don’t have to think about anything further, other than repeating the same thing until the business slows down and then blame it on the economy. Every business model has to eventually pivot so it can be sustainable, even if the economy might be shit. What I also came to realize about myself and my own business is that I am feeling stuck with the trajectory we were going in. Recalling what my dad taught me in my early years, he would say, “Whatever you do, be the best at what you do,” and he was a damn good TCM specialist. So I decided to go back to school. Not for law, but for business. The only reason why going back to school makes sense is because it would add enormous value in my career path, but also lend credibility in my work. My grades at SF State did not even meet the criteria – the requirement is 3.0 GPA, but I only had a 2.9 GPA after attending post-bac. In the summer of 2021, months after my dad had passed, I submitted an application for an MBA program and was accepted with not two, but one letter of recommendation. Hot Boi Chili Oil was my golden ticket to attend my dream school, Santa Clara University. I attended the university as a sponge of knowledge, soaking in anything and everything I was learning. And now, I have acquired a degree for Masters in Business Administration with a concentration in Food Entrepreneurship and I am the first in my generation on my Dad’s side of the family to earn this piece of paper. The reason I mention this is because only my dad and his youngest brother have graduate degrees and I can’t tell you how many times my uncle has talked shit about my cousins and I for not reaching higher education and doing anything substantial in his view.

What do you look forward to for HBCO as we enter the new year?

Truth be told, I’m looking forward to taking Hot Boi Chili Oil to a new and long-awaited phase. We are nearing completion with reformulating our chili oil and sending the recipe to a facility to co-manufacture Hot Boi. We’ve been making this all by hand and even though a lot of our current processes are optimized, we need to scale the business so I can focus on other aspects of the business such as marketing, sales, collaborations, and new product development. Taking all the things I’ve learned in graduate school and finally putting it into action. We’ve got so many ideas over the years and it’s about time we get to act on it!

What I am most excited about is my life partner and co-founder of Hot Boi Chili Oil, finding her place in the world and starting her second quarter for the MBA program at Santa Clara University. She’s always had an acuity for solving problems and having great observations about businesses, but because of her experience attending UC Berkeley, she felt tired and worn out after graduating. So the idea of going back to academia bemoaned her. However, as she saw me going through the program and seeing how ecstatic I was to go to class and learn, she decided to take that leap of faith for higher education. To calm her fears of going back to school, I kept mentioning that even though her background is nowhere near related to business, don’t hesitate to use me as a resource – I’m here to help!. I am wishing her all the best and I’m looking forward to seeing her as a SCUMBAG (iykyk, but for those that don’t, Santa Clara University MBA Graduate).

Over the years we have seen a huge growth in the number of Asian American entrepreneurs and the collective power of the community, fueled in large part by social media. What advice do you have for other Asian American folks interested in starting their own business?

My first piece of advice is to learn what you're passionate about. I watched Jiro Dreams of Sushi and he’s the type of guy where it's clear that this is his passion and he’s going to learn everything he can with this. I feel like I've tried to keep that mindset because there's just always something to learn. And when you find your passion or dream, go for it. Even though there’s that voice in the back of your mind about self-doubt, failure, and then hearing naysayers out in the open, especially your own parents – you will meet more folks who will tell you directly, you can't do this. They'll find every type of rhetoric to pull you down. But go for it and don't let anybody else tell you otherwise because would you rather go on the next twenty years living with this regret? There's always room for redemption, whether you fail or not. Failing is the best part of doing anything because you get to learn from it. And if you fail fast, you learn fast. What matters is you're working on it and don’t be afraid to ask for help. If people don’t help you, then they didn’t like you to begin with. That’s perfectly fine. 

Nowadays, there's a lot more attention on the Asian community as we have a lot more folks who are actively starting businesses but there’s a caveat – there are AAPI entrepreneurial communities that have a wealth of resources and support.. When I first started out, I posted onto a Facebook group, Asian Hustle Network, to get feedback and build a customer base, and it's been great to see those customers come back and share our brand with their loved ones. To this day, people would tag us and shout us out on different social media platforms. I’m forever grateful to our supporters.

Website: https://hotboi.co
Instagram: @hotboichilioil